China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total::China installed more new solar capacity last year than the total amount ever installed in any other country.
Currently seeing the US climate narrative shift from “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when China won’t? >:(” to “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when Senegal won’t? >:(” Can’t wait for 20 years from now when we’re balls deep in climate disasters, Senegal gets its shit together, and the US narrative moves to
hondurasEl SalvadorUgandacomparing itself to the Philippines.Holy crap you guys, it turns out that the narrative that the developing world is going to burn an ass-ton of fossil fuels is a lot weaker than I thought. It looks like there’s a fuckton of equatorial and global south countries with renewables/hydro power, Honduras is even adding Geothermal. God damn it, USA, get off your ass and fix your shit already.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020. Thanks to Biden policies. Even though according to reddit he’s an incontinent dementia patient.
Source? I haven’t seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it’s not 40%. I’m speaking of electricity production, but I can’t think of a reasonable metric that’s anywhere near 40% nationally. Let’s try to stick to reality here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States
You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear “renewable”, so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_proposed_as_renewable_energy
You are a total douche, btw.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020
This what you said. You’re comparing a 2020 number without nuclear to a 2022 number with nuclear. That’s dumb and misleading. That doesn’t make me a douche, it makes you wrong and petty. Grow up and just try to get your numbers and facts straight.
The US DOE puts the US at 20% renewable energy.
Pretty easy to argue nuclear is renewable and is carbon neutral. Ergo, 40%.
Except when you leave out nuclear in 2020 and add it in 2023 you’re not pointing out anything about Biden (or anyone else’s) policies. You’re just demonstrating that shifting your metrics mid sentence leads to a nonsense conclusion.
I mean… It can all be true, right?
Listen to Biden’s interview on Conan O’Brien’s podcast then come back here and tell me he’s demented. I’ll wait.
China needs a fuckload of power, they are building more of everything including coal. The only reason they aren’t building more coal is people like seeing out their windows.
The US is actually winding down coal use. China is still expanding, this is a problem. The fact China also added a ton of solar panels is a nice distraction.
I’m not so sure about that. China is about to ramp up solar even more. They build a lot of solar and battery-related factories and secured mining rights for solar and battery raw elements in Asia and Africa in the past few years, sometimes to the point of fighting with the displaced locals (China tend to bring their own workers from mainland instead of employing local workers).
I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.
In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
Well, shit.
Anyway, I’m glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China’s been building. I’m glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I’d be interested to learn what we’re replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.
Renewables may be more plausible for some developing countries because of lack of competency or administrative consistency (sometimes to the degree of stealing everything which isn’t nailed to the floor) for centralized grid with a few big producers, and weak infrastructure in general.
But of course it would be good if some things weren’t stagnating in countries without such factors.
It’s also easier to justify adopting newer tech in places that are less developed. If you made a billion dollar investment and are still paying for it, it’s harder to scrap it and pivot.
Fantastic. Remember guys, we’re all on the same side on this one. This should be a signal for the US to get its ass in gear to do the same, but it’s not like China expanding its renewable energy capacity is anything but great for everyone.
Good news for one of the planet’s most polluting countries.
That is producing for the rest of the world and especially for the west. It’s hypocritical to blame china while buying stuff that had to be cheaper and cheaper.
No, it’s not hypocritical. Yes, anyone with half a brain knows China makes a huge chunk of the world’s stuff.
A nation can make choices as to what energy sources they use and China went balls to the wall with coal. That wasn’t a choice the buyers of Chinese products made.
Lol look what they are spending the money they earn from those industries. At least they are not solely funding decades long genocide but actually doing something about the emissions they take on.
Tibet
Uyghers
The average consumer doesn’t actually have a choice in the matter. Unless you are wealthy enough to purchase only local artisan made goods near everything you can afford is made in China or made in China adjacent.
That’s not really the point. The point is their emissions will be higher because they’re producing all the stuff everyone else purchases. The production is what creates pollution. If they stopped producing then other countries would and they would increase their pollution.
It’s not saying don’t buy products from China. It’s saying China polluted because things are bought from them. The pollution would be wherever production is taking place.
Did you forget about the existence of regulations to control the pollution that manufacturing is allowed to produce? How about the countries who are allowing pollution to happen on a ridiculous scale fix their environmental regulations? It’s not like they are under the rule of the USA and have to pollute because we say so.
You could simply not purchase as much crap. Half of the factories that supply the West’s goods would go out of business if people stopped buying new phones and shitty plastics every full moon.
I don’t think that absolves China of any blame. They’re still choosing to produce cheap goods at the expense of the planet, because it’s good business for them too.
If not them then it’d be someone else. Clearly they’re starting to take polluting seriously.
If you look at CO2 emissions per capita then China is actually doing better than countries like Canada, the US, and Singapore. Assuming I haven’t completely misread that table.
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
This is a list of sovereign states and territories by per capita carbon dioxide emissions due to certain forms of human activity, based on the EDGAR database created by European Commission. The following table lists the 1970, 1990, 2005, 2017 and 2022 annual per capita CO2 emissions estimates (in kilotons of CO2 per year). The data only consider carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and cement manufacture, but not emissions from land use, land-use change and forestry Over the last 150 years, estimated cumulative emissions from land use and land-use change represent approximately one-third of total cumulative anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Emissions from international shipping or bunker fuels are also not included in national figures, which can make a large difference for small countries with important ports. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Sixth Assessment Report finds that the “Agriculture, Forestry and Other Land Use (AFOLU)” sector on average, accounted for 13-21% of global total anthropogenic GHG emissions in the period 2010–2019.
CO2 emissions are carefully curated and we are not even that good at calculating them. I wouldn’t trust any of this info coming from China let alone from any nation.
Do you have a better metric?
Big dog 2 months… If you knew how companies figure out their pollution metrics you would be very sad.
As for a better metric, I don’t know. Everything is tied to cost so it’s really dumb
Not sure why you’re so hung up on dogs or 2 months. The thread still shows up in searches and you’re clearly getting updates on it. Unless there’s some evidence to suggest the information in this thread is now obsolete, there’s no reason not to respond.
@esteeyou@lemmy.world made a claim and provided evidence. Unless there’s better evidence to the contrary it’s reasonable to accept the claim. My children sometimes still respond to arguments with, “Nuh uh.” I generally expect more from adults.
You‘re right. We should move production to cleaner countries.
Production will always have some waste and pollution. China has high pollution because we do a lot of production there. As I pointed out above, on both a per-capita and a per-production basis China pollutes less than many industrialized nations (US. Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Taiwan) and many developing nations (Singapore, Malaysia).
Given current manufacturing data, moving production out of China to other countries would likely increase pollution.
Only way many western countries were able to slow their rise in CO2 emissions. Despite outsourcing their emissions to China, the US still emits twice the CO2 per capita compared with China.
A lot of people don’t realize how quickly China is changing. Things that were true just a few decades ago are often no longer true.
Once China decided that pollution was a problem they went all in on addressing it. China has massive reforestation projects, huge incentives to switch to EVs, and much tighter energy efficiency standards.
Solar isn’t even their only renewable energy source. China gets about equal amounts from solar, wind and hydro https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/013124-coal-still-accounted-for-nearly-60-of-chinas-electricity-supply-in-2023-cec
together they make up a little less than half of their total energy production and the ratio keeps improving.correction: those are projected ratios, not current ratios.Of course, on a per capita basis, China isn’t even close to being a top polluter. Unless you think that people in smaller countries deserve to pollute more, per-capita is the better measurement. China looks a little worse if you do that but it’s still far from a top polluter by that metric.
87% of China’s energy comes from non renewable and they aren’t one of the most polluting. They ARE the most polluted country on the planet.
And saying China leads the way is bogus. Per capita for renewable they are one of the worst.
Saying China made the most solar panels is bullshit when they have over a billion people, the USA is actually far ahead of China when it comes to renewable energy.
I expect nothing less from a news site that has been caught multiple times in the past for spouting pseudoscience.
Actually they are poluting for you to buy your stuff cheaper, who is responsible for the polution of your stuff? Dowa not make any sense to blame them for factories that the west choosed to put there.
They could always say no
And why are they one of the most polluting countries?
Because they pollute a lot
There’s a reason the US is targeting China from various fronts (trade restrictions, sanctions, etc.). China is a powerhouse and the US is terrified of being left behind.
I don’t get why you’re getting dowvoted. I guess there are a lot of Americans over here. But your statement is absolutely true. The US attempts at restricting China’s access to various technologies only make sense if they feel threatened by them.
It just could be, maybe, military posturing.
Because I don’t remember any restrictions for as long as China didn’t intend to start the WW3.
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We’re watching The Thucydides Trap unfold in real-time
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides’ Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. The term exploded in popularity in 2015 and primarily applies to analysis of China–United States relations. Supporting the thesis, Allison led a study at Harvard University’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs which found that, among a sample of 16 historical instances of an emerging power rivaling a ruling power, 12 ended in war. That study, however, has come under considerable criticism, and scholarly opinion on the value of the Thucydides Trap concept—particularly as it relates to a potential military conflict between the United States and China—remains divided.
China is doing a lot of shady stuff though.
If the US really wanted to resolve it they would do more about patient infringement and spend more money on research.
Good. I assume it helps that most of the world’s solar panel manufacturing is based in China.
The rest of the world should be ramping up production, not relying on China for cheap labour.
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That would be the point of making panels and wind turbines themselves.
Ideally you’d want enough manufacturing capacity to power your whole country with renewables, in the time it takes for the first bits to start needing replacements.
Think about Uyghurs.
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I trust the Arab countrys as far as I could throw them. Get the Irish in there and I may take such claims seriously.
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What do Arabs have to do a Turkic genocide? You are conflating Muslim and Arab.
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The irony of your propaganda account posting about propaganda is full flavored.
I keep seeing more and more about the solar production in Georgia, USA ramping up!
It great to see the world really going into green industrialzation.
Cool part is we’ve got a functional safety system like OSHA so everyone goes home with all their fingers and toes, and the EPA keeps the nearby creeks from getting contaminated.
Can’t say the same for other countries, troubled and fucked up as our country is.
Other countries are Asiatic hordes, nothing but lawlessness and savagery. Only America make clean safe technology! 😜
Those are obviously bad, the superfund sites.
You know how when you’re the first to do something, you’re also the first to make mistakes?
Imagine knowing the results of being careless, and being careless anyway. 😂 What’s wrong with you??
To be clear: I believe most people anywhere want to be safe, and do a good job. Their administrators and governmental reps are the pieces of dogshit, ccp included, that ignore safety and individuality. The US has serious problems too, but again, we have safety organizations with teeth here.
Oh my God, that’s awful!
I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!
Let’s install solar panels on the moon! That’ll fucking show them. Beam the energy back to earth with giant fucking microwave dishes. Ohhh that would really piss off them damn reds
And opened more coal plants too lol, don’t be quick in praising the CCP, there’s always something shady in the background…
And systematically genociding their minorities too. Let’s never forget that.
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This is not just a theory. There are evidences. Until you relay CCP propaganda.
they are from .ML, a major tankie instance, with major love for Pooty/Russia and Pooh Bear/China and irrational hatred for anything Not Russia/China. Soooo… Yeah.
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Tell you what. I’ll deny there is any genocide in Gaza on the exact same basis that you’re denying it for the Uyghurs. Does that work for you? If it really has to be “extraordinary”, then it has to be applied equally.
Or is this not something like, say, UFOs or homeopathy where we actually need extraordinary evidence?
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I still can’t wrap my head around the case for genocide in China. Political and religious oppression is evident, but aside from grainy photos of some prisoners, but I haven’t seen evidence of genocide. People are saying it though so… I guess it could be true?
China is still developing and allowing European countries and the US to pollute unchecked but clutch your pearls when China and other countries do the same is ideological.
This article is evidence that China is putting effort forward on renewables. Meanwhile, Germany is opening coal plants and the US can’t get a handle on anything at all.
China is doing something good: here’s why it’s bad.
It’s not really shady now is it? There is no way solar can provide enough power for the entire country of china.
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China’s CO2 output is expected to fall in the coming year, and for structural reasons, stay that way for years to come.
Bigger country does things bigger, more at 11.
“The United States occupies a total area of about 3.8 million square miles while China has an area of approximately 3.7million square miles. However, China has a bigger land area than the United States. The Chinese land area is about 2.2% bigger than the United States (3.5 million square miles).“
About 20% of that US land is in Alaska, which is not a place to put solar panels. Not if you want them to produce half the year straight, anyway.
They were probably referring to population
China also consumes twice as much electricity as the US (half as much per capita)
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True, now I expect Canada to install more solar panels than China has in total.
Then next is Russia. I like this common sense concept!
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Good for them
Well, someone has to make use of renewable energy I guess lol
You can thank conservatives for that. They are beholden to fossil fuel interests so they attack everything else whether it be solar energy or ev
Building giant empty cities in the middle of nowhere doesn’t help the housing crisis in China.
Building giant solar and wind farms in the middle of nowhere does help with the pollution crisis.
Glad that they finally found something that uses dumping money in the middle of nowhere that can actually improve peoples lives instead of just prop up an economic bubble.
Those are installed, but are they connected to the grid?
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Totally, you can get all the money from the government for it so you make the profit. Just look at the rent a bike industry in China or the EV industry
But they still have their crazy mines that polute right? No number of solar pannel will change anything if you don’t stop what you are doing that polutes.
Same for all countries btw…China is installing more energy production than any other country. Wind, solar, coal and nuclear. They are installing everything.
China pollutes so much because the biggest consumer economy in the world deindustrialized and outsourced manufacturing to them.
China pollutes so much because George HW Bush and Bill Clinton pushed American jobs to China so CEOs could make bank on huge profits on cheap labor, unsafe work places, and near zero environmental regulation that was impossible in the United States. We built China by disregarding worker rights and the environment and we are paying for it dearly.
Its because China isn’t beholden to a bunch of invisible suits demanding money over all else. Apparently the US can’t break from Citizens United, and tell this corpos whats what to literally save its own skin.
Lol XDDDDD
Thinking China isn’t beholden to an invisible elite is the laugh I needed today
How did their presidential election go again?
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2952 votes for
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0 votes against
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0 votes abstain
China is from from perfect, missing tons of freedoms like speech. However do you think they have the same issues as the US regarding wealth hoarding? They have put billionaires in jail.
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Pooh with an iron mit is not the same as the invisible kings of the countless corporations donating their free speech to our government. They are beholden to Whinnie, and he is out in the open. Yes, there are still a lot of economical politics over there. Yes, there is still capitalistic pressures and businesses are allowed to operate. Do they define money as free speech over there? Did they capture bribery and bind it to the law? I don’t know, but I do know that is true for the US, and it is the reason you won’t see enough renewables being built. Its the reason we will drag our feet to our graves, because it makes some dudes richer than god.
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