Florida’s state athletic board fined a high school and put it on probation Tuesday after a transgender student played on the girls volleyball team, a violation of a controversial law enacted by Gov. Ron DeSantis and the Legislature.
The Florida High School Athletic Association fined Monarch High $16,500, ordered the principal and athletic director to attend rules seminars and placed the suburban Fort Lauderdale school on probation for 11 months, meaning further violations could lead to increased punishments. The association also barred the girl from participating in boys sports for 11 months.
The 2021 law, which supporters named “The Fairness in Women’s Sports Act,” bars transgender girls and women from playing on public school teams intended for student athletes identified as girls at birth.
The student, a 10th grader who played in 33 matches over the last two seasons, was removed from the team last month after the Broward County School District was notified by an anonymous tipster about her participation. Her removal led hundreds of Monarch students to walk out of class two weeks ago in protest.
From the party that brought you such hits like: “Don’t Tread on Me,” and “Small Govermment!” comes a new this new banger:
“Some of you assholes are begging to be tread on by the government” and " Small government to HELP you, not make your life miserable!" In all good book stores…errr. sorry no, we closed those…on fox News and your favorite right wing talking head near you!
Florida is such a shithole state
When I was in school, there was only girls volleyball and no boy’s volleyball team so I have a question, say the person in this article wasn’t transgender but it was a boy (born with male genitalia and identifying as a male) who wanted to play volleyball. If there were no boy’s volleyball team at the school, would he be allowed to play on the girl’s team? I only ask because isn’t that how Title 9 has been interpreted?
This is anecdotal but I played hockey in high school and wrestled one year, we had a girl on our hockey team because we had no girl’s hockey team, she was a lot better than me too, I also remember one of our wrestlers wrestling a girl from another school because there was no girl’s wrestling team. There were no issues in either of those cases.
Regardless of all that, if there’s only one volleyball team at the school and it’s an all women sport, if a boy or transgender girl wants to play, it seems to me they should be allowed on that team if there’s no other opportunities for them to play.
I’ll finish this by saying: I am one person and these are my thoughts not a strong opinion that I’m going to live or die by so I don’t want to start an argument , just a discussion.
Yeah, I worked at a school where a cis girl played on a football team where all the other players were boys. It was never a problem.
Yes, that literally has never been the problem.
Nope you’re right. We had a girl on our high school hockey team too. High school sports have been put on some kind of pedestal in parts of our country. Like it’s the Olympics or something. It’s literally just supposed to be another avenue of teaching and socialization. Building confidence and the ability to work in teams effectively
Honestly we should go to the other extreme. Stop even keeping score in high school sports.
Edit - At risk of dating myself I do want to point out, this was 20 years ago. Just to show how made up this issue is now.
I’ve heard some roller derby teams doing this when their attendance numbers are low. They just ask the team and have a vote to see if people are comfortable or not. According to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX
It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or any other education program that receives funding from the federal government.
You would be allowed.
If people are interested, it’s easy to find a case by case solution, which fits best the given situation - but some people are just asholes or populist so others have to suffer.
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Conservatives think that every girl athlete is inferior to every boy athlete.
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They think that trans girls aren’t girls; they’re just boys who have been convinced by some evil liberal plot to pretend to be girls.
So they think a trans girl gives some sort of advantage that the other girl athletes can’t possibly overcome.
Of course, more than five years ago or so they didn’t give a flying fuck about girl’s or women’s sports (and they still don’t insofar as they can use them for vice-signalling political wedges.)
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I think this has always been the case when there is no other team. Its hard to say though as I cannot imaging a boy trying to play on the girls team when the boys is an option. high school is hard enough as it is.
I’m hopeful these ideals are changing for the better with gen z
yeah I don’t think they were ideals really but if gen z has somehow eliminated peer pressure and bullying then I suppose.
I wanted to play volleyball in high school, but they just looked at me like I was a nut.
we had a girl on our hockey team
Why would you think girls being on boys’ team is the problem here? This is about the weaker gender being protected from the stronger one.
I don’t think Title IX ever specifically mentions “women”, it’s just about sex-based discrimination of any sort.
Because Volleyball is famously a contact sport?
Also it’s High school. Nobody cares except a few parents who take it way too seriously.
Oh no! Not high school sports! Whatever will we do?!?
The highly competitive and world famous Monarch girls volleyball team from Coconut Creek, Florida. Nothing should be allowed to besmirch their timeless reputation through the hallowed halls of heteronormative athletic excellence.
Who called it in? It was a horny dad who got the ick after ogling the trans kid at volleyball practice wasn’t it?
Oof, I’d your second paragraph wasn’t the most likely cause I’d be surprised, but it could also be a Karen who thought a penis being around their chaste daughters would literally summon Satan.
But, what if the player from the other team trips and falls over one of them. They might get pregnant! - concerned soccer-mom
Right? Look it can happen anywhere any time!
These are great
Why fine them instead of disqualifying?
Seems odd
The FL Republicans just want to make a political statement.
There’s no money in disqualifications.
They banned the kid from school sports as well.
Yeah, they were cheating. The kid was already banned
Just seems weird to give a fine to the school, which tax payers would pay for
More typical punishments have banned the whole team
Seems weird to even have the rule in high school sports.
Not really relevant
Its there so you break it under assumption of consequence
That just sounds like another way to say you have to follow the law even when it’s immoral and harmful.
How?
Did you think pushing for change was easy?
No but this kind of civil disobedience is the way to do it.
Wait if you can’t discuss sexuality or gender issues in school how do they know. Codewords? Charades?
Don’t be silly, that law was never going to be used against conservatives.
Conservatives make it their business to know by any means necessary what you have between your legs.
According to armchair analysts, isn’t she supposed to be dominating all high school volleyball in it’s entirety like some ‘hopped up on E’ ubermensch? /s
If not, then why is there separate mens and womens teams at all?
Tradition. Because some people can’t handle that little Billy is never going to play at a higher level than the high school team?
All sorts of reasons. None of them are good though.
It’s an antiquated tradition, but the field of athletics isn’t exactly known for embracing progress and change
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Thanks for demonstrating, you sound just like the transphobes
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I used to actually try to reason with people like you, with citations and ethical appeals – the whole nine yards.
But you know what I learned? You can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into.
No matter what anyone says, you lot really want to use those skull calipers, and ain’t no data, logic, or ethics going to stop you.
And yes, it’s absolutely bigoted and sexist to imply that activities should be segregated by gender. That’s objectively a bigoted opinion. You just don’t want to admit it, because it would mean you choose to be a bad person.
Again, you won’t let something like an objective fact stop you, so far be it from me to waste my time with people like you.
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It’s really not a bigoted position; it’s about protecting women.
I should say, for some people I’m sure it’s about bigotry. But personally I think it’s an important feminist issue, since biological women could be playing alongside people that have gone through male puberty. That has the potential to be unreasonably dangerous as well as unfair to those who’ve been through female puberty, on average.
Remember this is about demographic averages, and it remains true that some/many biological women could annihilate some/many biological men in many physical endeavours. It’s that bimodal distribution again. Not anymore bigoted than, unfortunately, reality is.
Something else came to mind while reading this article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/09/sports-gender-sex-segregation-coed/671460/“There are players on teams that we play that are faster than me, that are stronger than me, that can hit the ball harder than me. So I knew that [the league’s] arguments didn’t really have any basis in that regard.”
This is what I’ve experienced in roller derby. The only thing carrying me is that I was taught how to ice skate and play hockey since I was 4. Again, pointing to a socializing aspect rather than a “gendered” thing.
Bimodal distribution, the fact these overlap seems to defeat people. But at the extremes of performance, the overlap is greatly reduced. Definitely need to separate the sexes in the vast majority of competitive sports. Anyone claiming otherwise is denying reality, which they’re free to do, but I am free to disagree with their conclusion.
What is the distribution of athletic performance in volleyball between 14 year olds and an 18 year olds? In high school volleyball, it’s perfectly possible for a team made of all 18 year olds who are 6 feet tall to play a team that is all 14 year olds that are 5 feet tall. The idea that without the participation of trans girls, high school volleyball is completely equitable is ridiculous. High school sports are for fun, learning teamwork and discipline, and fitness. Who wins a high school volleyball game is not important. Certainly it’s not more important than the health and safety of trans girls - and non-gender-conforming cis girls who have been and will continued to be tortured by laws like this.
In my experience youth sports at all levels are also there in order to put band-aids on the fragile egoes of adults.
Is it common for a varsity team to be playing a freshman team? That wasn’t the case with football.
Yes. It absolutely happens. Especially if the school can’t field two teams.
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In competitive youth swimming, which I did as a child, the age groups are like 11-12, 13-14, 15-16. So, it was possible for someone who was 12 a week ago to swim against someone who turns 15 next week - a HUGE difference in terms of physical development. And if your birthday happens to fall in the weeks before the big championship meet every year, you are always at the bottom or middle of your age bracket for your entire childhood, never at the top. But the specifics don’t even matter. Age groups and grade classifications are to try to make things a little more fair so that little kids aren’t swimming against basically adults. But it’s not in any way perfectly fair. And also, it doesn’t matter! Let kids play sports and get the benefits of that activity. Your kid’s team winning - or losing - some sports game in 10th grade doesn’t matter. Keeping this girl from playing volleyball isn’t fixing any problem. In Utah they made a ban and there were literally 4 trans athletes in the entire state. It’s culture war bullshit. And people who start quoting bone density studies or whatever are either falling for it or willingly participating in it.
Competitive Hockey was the same way. But we were also allowed to “play up” if we were good enough to get on an older team. So it did have some balancing in that regard. For private competitive sports in the high school age brackets we should be using the same rules as the professional leagues. Because that’s where people go to get noticed by the scouts and train intensively to play at high levels.
But in high school teams? Those should be the same rules as the friendly leagues where nobody cares. It’s about having fun and not much else. Winning definitely isn’t the point at a school.
Sure. In professional sports where they’re training intensively. In High School it’s a bit ridiculous. Getting a winning record isn’t the point of sports at that level. It’s just another mode of teaching.
I suppose, although you’d still expect the skill distribution to follow the same pattern in this smaller population, i.e., school or college. So on average you’d be forcing girls out of sports teams.
Assuming you didn’t just field extra teams?
Yes, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills reading these comments.
They must be really fucking bored over there
Nope. Just fucking stupid.
Enlightened neckbeards with shitty takes about this in three, two…
Self fulfilling prophecy, it seems. 🤨
“Be the neckbeard you wish to see in this thread” I guess
Glad to see the school has some common sense. The principal and athletic director pushed to keep her on the team. Great classmates as well, learning to make their voice heard.
So glad we fixed climate change, wealth inequality, bigotry, rising fascism, homelessness, etc so we can work on the real issues.
Interesting how conservatives act like they really care about women’s sports if a trans girl is playing on the team, but they were over the moon when the USWNT got knocked out of the World Cup. And don’t even suggest they go to a WNBA game.
I remember the conservative shit fest they had over USWNT asking for equal pay to the men’s team.
To be fair the USWNT was full of shit on the equal pay thing
I tried researching it after watching the ‘LFG’ documentary and most sites were MRA bluster. What did you find out?
You uhhhh, didn’t read past the first couple paragraphs did you? It was some rather selective accounting.
Cordeiro’s letter stipulated that the totals do not include money received by U.S. Soccer from FIFA for World Cup bonuses. With that money included, federation analysis said that the men earned $41 million for the same nine-year period, compared to $39.7 million for the women.
Considering that revenue and profits for the men’s world cup ABSOLUTELY DWARF the women’s world cup this makes perfect sense. And considering the huge gap in revenue and profit a $1.3 million differences is completely acceptable
And then literally everyone else involved said the numbers they presented were false and selective.
I may get down voted for this, but there needs to be a distinction between male and female athletes somewhere. There’s biological differences in muscle mass and trans women have a biological advantage. I don’t necessarily agree with fine, but I do think that cis female sports should have some protections too.
What about cis women with heightened testosterone levels then? They won’t exactly be beholden to strict requirements like a trans woman with regulated testosterone will.
There’s biological variance at play in all of sports, if you start going there, you have to start asking yourself what your actual goal is? Is it protecting minorities and disadvantaged people? Or is it something akin to weight classes? Or… what?
Either way you put it, either you allow trans women in women’s sports, or you rework the system to be based on your biology in some way, separated into classes like testosterone level, body weight, how tal you are… etc. Otherwise you will either be inconsistent in your ruling, or exclude some cis women which is what you specifically tried to avoid in the first place.
Trans woman have lower muscle mass and strength then average cis females after being HRT.
Is this scientifically verified? If it is, I’d like to see the study. And what is the study’s demographic? Because we’re only talking about athletics so the demo should be trans athletes vs cis female athletes.
Reading into this, my main points of concern are that there is only a population of 8 in each group. That’s far from clinically significant, but if we pretend for the sake of argument that it is a clinically significant population there’s still the fact that TW have more muscle mass and outperformed the CW in their handgrip strength despite lower strength/FFM due to the extra muscle mass. The study authors believe that this is because a difference in oxidative processes in the muscle but don’t go on to elaborate their hypothesis so it may allow some TW to take advantage of their extra muscle mass when in competition and other hormones flood the CNS/bloodstream.
My hypothesis would be that adrenaline temporarily helps to overcome the suppression of muscle performance due to hormone therapy. Note that this is my hypothesis and would need to be studied. Maybe I am wrong, but in my clinical experience the observable results run counter to the small scope of this particular study.
I do think more studies need to be done. My opinion is if a cis woman would be barred for PCOS then barring trans women is fine
Look at you, attacking the source before you even see it.
Totally unbiased though.
I what way did I attack it? I asked to see the source and expressed my concern with possible points of scrutiny as it’s being presented in the argument at hand. I’m pro-LGBT rights.
Why? What do you imagine is the harm caused by allowing all women to participate?
See my other reply
women
Depends on what you think this word means, I guess.
I don’t care what bigots think though
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