• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      4 hours ago

      In what way is China fascist? It’s a socialist country, public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes control the state.

      • Akasazh@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Authoritarianism, violent oppression of minorites and dissenting movements, deeply ingrained surveillance state with state censorship.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          3 hours ago

          China does not violently oppress minorities, and wielding state authority, censorship, and surveilance against capitalists and fascists is necessary for a socialist state, and doesn’t make it fascist. Fascism is capitalism violently defending itself from decay and solidifying bourgeois control, not proletarian.

      • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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        4 hours ago

        Surveillance and political suppression for one. Media, journalism, etc.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          4 hours ago

          That’s not what fascism means, especially when these are used against capitalists most of all, and not against the working classes nearly as much. Fascism is capitalism violently entrenching itself when it finds itself in crisis, it isn’t when a socialist state uses state power to keep capitalists under control and expropriate their property.

          • LwL@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            That’s not what fascism is either lol

            I wouldn’t call china fascist, though doubtlessly authoritarian. But I don’t have nearly as much info on china, it seems to me the persecution of minorities is less of a central political scapegoat and more some weird side thing. But without speaking chinese, I might be wrong. The US had plenty of fascist characteristics at this point and is rather open about the persecution.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              1 hour ago

              The US is fascist because it’s in crisis. Imperialism is decaying and austerity is being brought inward.

          • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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            4 hours ago

            I’m not trying to fuss over what to call something. My intended point stands.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              4 hours ago

              It doesn’t, though. Socialism is not fascism, and all socialist states need to exert authority against capitalists and fascists to continue to exist. Class harmony is a lie.

              • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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                4 hours ago

                My point is that the forms of oppression that occur in China aren’t exclusive to the capitalist class, and remain something I oppose.

                Which stands.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  4 hours ago

                  But all of what you listed is used as a means to control the capitalist class, not as an arbitrary measure to oppress people. In your country, those same measures are used by the capitalist class against the working classes.

                  It does not stand because you rely on erasing vital context, that being which class uses it against which.

                  • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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                    4 hours ago

                    What are you even saying? Preventing independent journalism is oppressive towards the working class now? Censoring the media is oppressive towards the working class?

        • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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          5 hours ago

          You didn’t make one you just stated something wildly incorrect so why should I take the time to give you a well thought out response trying to explain how truly idiotic is?

          • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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            5 hours ago

            I did make one, that you can oppose two things at the same time.

            I could explain, but wait, you already said that authoritarianism was meaningless to you. If it doesn’t matter to you, well, seems pointless to try to convince that it is actually fascist.

            • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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              4 hours ago

              You have to be a troll.

              You can appose 2 things

              Sure not what I took issue with. I took issue with you calling China fascist which is just an untrue statement.

              Authoritarian is a pejorative. All countries and states in class society are “authoritarian” by necessity. Fascism is a specific thing arising from the tendency for the rate of profit to decline in capitalist society.

              • Yliaster@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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                4 hours ago

                You can keep insisting I’m a troll if it helps you deal with not being able to engage with arguments.

                China is authoritarian, but authoritarianism doesn’t matter to you, so that shouldn’t matter to you. Consistency, please.

                And no, countries aren’t “authoritarian” by necessity. Even if some amount of policies etc that would be considered such exist everywhere, you have countries that are freer and countries that have more political suppression, censorship of media outlets, etc etc.

                China does censor it’s media—political and entertainment— heavily. Just one small example.

                • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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                  4 hours ago

                  How much Chinese media do you watch? How much time have you spent on Chinese social media? How fluent are you in Chinese? Or did you just get told this by other white people and decided to just go along with it because it confirms your biases.